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  • 13 messages
  • September 06, 2015 11:25
September 06, 2015 11:25

When do the auctioneers take their responsibility and do their work correctly?

It is generally known that there are many false Dali lithographs, etchings, engravings, etc. in circulation.

An auctioneer should have a little knowledge of this.

All too often I see clearly fake Dali prints estimated by an auctioneer at 450 to 650 euros. This can't go through the bracket. I also suspect that frequent sellers of Dali fake prints strike a deal with the auction master.

If you want to buy a Dali here, think first about what you want to pay for a 'poster'.

Here are some sites that provide more information about fake Dali prints:

fakedali.blogspot.be

daliauctionwatch.blogspot.be

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Morits
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September 06, 2015 12:04

I also suspect that frequent sellers of Dali fake prints are making a deal with the auction master

you shouldn't make allegations like this, because you can't do this and I don't think it shows respect either.

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  • 13 messages
  • September 06, 2015 12:11
September 06, 2015 12:11

You have to earn respect. In this case with a more or less correct taksatie. Agree or not.

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  • September 06, 2015 13:42
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September 06, 2015 13:42

@nickvdh
I also suspect that frequent sellers of Dali fake prints are making a deal with the auctioneer

Auctioneers never make deals with sellers and / or buyers. That would mean the end of their job.
I assume you reported the allegations about fake lots to the auctioneer, what was his / her reaction to that?

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  • 13 messages
  • September 06, 2015 14:29
September 06, 2015 14:29

What was his / her reaction? No response.

And this topic isn't about deals or accusations.

It's about expertise. When an auctioneer makes an estimate of a work that is described in the lot as genuine Dali with signature in pencil ect. And of which it appears that Dali never even made this work, it is not wise to make an estimate whose value corresponds to an original. That would mean the end of their job. This puts potential bidders on the wrong track and gives incorrect information. Selling fake as original is a scam.

Do they sometimes browse the reference catalogs of Field of Michler?

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Morits
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September 06, 2015 15:46

Catawiki does not sell, so the seller is a scammer, not Catawiki. Catawiki does not own these prints ....!

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  • 13 messages
  • September 06, 2015 16:19
September 06, 2015 16:19

Very correct Morits. A seller who offers fake as original is a scammer. To keep this in mind for the auctioneer. And if the auctioneer makes an estimate, he / she takes more into account the originality, which is not often the case.

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Morits
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September 06, 2015 17:47

Again: Catawiki cannot verify that, they are completely dependent on the (honest) seller

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September 06, 2015 19:33

The buyer also has some responsibility, there is no COA (certificate of authenticity), don't do that.

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  • September 06, 2015 20:09
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September 06, 2015 20:09

I don't know Metalfigures,

Catawiki has it sold through its website as real, you expect that research has some reliability, otherwise you can go to marketplace just like that

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  • September 07, 2015 00:04
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September 07, 2015 00:04

If I were to buy a lithograph, etching, engraving at a marketplace or a recognized auction house, I would also want a COA there, otherwise never mind.

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  • September 07, 2015 09:38
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September 07, 2015 09:38

Because such a COA is really hard to copy, right?

Oh, come on guys. You don't have to forge a Dali signature at all. If you pretend to know a little about it, you should know that Dali regularly spent a morning signing on blank sheets of paper. He has signed thousands of them. They were only then provided with a nice picture. Dali's own definition of a forgery was a job for which he (Dali) had not been paid. He didn't really care if he painted or signed it all himself, as long as it made money.

That's just the joke at Dali. The print / etching / drawing / painting is 'false', but the pencil signature may very well be 'real'. Appropriate for the master of surrealism, actually. :-)

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  • September 07, 2015 10:41
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September 07, 2015 10:41

Not only Dali's Article is in German but very interesting

https://www.originalgrafik.de/Grafikkauf-im-Internet:_:20.html

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September 07, 2015 10:47

Because such a COA is really hard to copy, right?

http://www.wetboek-online.nl/wet/Wetboek%20van%20Strafrecht/225.html

You are then at least a few years under the roof ;-)

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  • 176 messages
  • September 07, 2015 13:29
September 07, 2015 13:29

Well, formally you could be right. But:

- not a priority

- Prove it's false

- Prove that seller was not in good faith

- get busy

- etc

- & gt; using your mind at the front (buying) is much smarter.

if it smells like and it looks like (ditto); it might be (ditto)

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  • September 07, 2015 19:22
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September 07, 2015 19:22

What do asylum seekers have to do with this?

Central Agency for the Reception of Asylum Seekers (COA)

;-)

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  • 13 messages
  • September 11, 2015 15:00
September 11, 2015 15:00

Today I received an answer from an auctioneer about a lithograph by Dali.

The auctioneer clearly indicates that in the lot concerned it is an 'after' and therefore not an original. For a non-original work, the auctioneer makes an estimate of 550 to 850 euros.

Detail: The auctioneer refers to a site where this work has already been sold. On this site there is an estimate of 180 to 200 euros for kind of equal non-original work by Dali.

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  • 613 messages
  • September 12, 2015 00:03
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September 12, 2015 00:03

Since the lots are not taken, but are assessed from a photo, it is a free port for illegal trade. Anyone who is somewhat familiar with art knows that there is massive fraud in Dali Chagall Corneille etc etc etc. Cornelle could not even tell whether or not he had painted something while he was looking at the painting. The turnover in fake is greater than the turnover in real.

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  • 13 messages
  • September 18, 2015 14:58
September 18, 2015 14:58

Compliments to the auctioneer for the new Dali auction, where he indicates '(to)' where necessary!

Clear info!

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  • 13 messages
  • October 06, 2015 11:40
October 06, 2015 11:40

Here is another link for those who want to buy a real counterfeit Dali litho at normal price.

Here or here

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  • 64 messages
  • October 07, 2015 15:46
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October 07, 2015 15:46

I thought that the auctioneer is not responsible for what is offered, or is he?

Because, if you have a little knowledge of antiques, brocante and art, you notice that a lot of FAKE is offered as real.

Money boxes that are counterfeit, amber that is Bakelite but they sell as real amber, reproduction "antique" dolls that are offered for real antiques, counterfeit silver coins that are made in China, and so on.

So it is one big show, but you have to understand it and you can only do that if you really work in that world and have really had the many objects in your hands to compare, see, smell, taste, ... ..

I had put the question to the auctioneer: how can I know if that amber necklace is indeed 44 million years old? And then you get an answer, "enough tests have been done on that in the past, blah blah blah blah ...." But so I have to conclude that as a buyer you can make quite a bad purchase if you have spent 1500 euros there for a necklace where no one can prove that it is really a 44 million year old necklace..... I mean.

So, in conclusion, I do believe that there are very good auctioneers here, but a number of them are clearly NOT experts and this is a big difference in my opinion.

The question is: SHOULD an auctioneer be an expert?

I could have already quarreled with several auctioneers by pointing out their incorrect information, but I'll keep my cool because otherwise I'll just shoot myself in the foot. However, amazing things have already happened.

Auctioneers are of course there to help, but if you are a professional yourself and you give a clear description of the lot, then he/she should not want to change a thing or two.

So I had 4 dolls for sale. The auctioneer writes "with original boxes" ??? I don't know where he got that, but my description didn't say this, so yes, then it was emailed back and forth to rectify that mistake.

Then I do a description in detail, "see photo 3". And lap, what does the auctioneer do, he moves the photos! emailed back and forth that I appreciate that he prefers NOT to do this.

Then I put a text in French (is my second language) LAP, there is another text made by a translation robot, so I e-mailed back and forth that he should not touch MY French text.

You would get gray hair.

,-)

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  • 613 messages
  • October 08, 2015 11:21
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October 08, 2015 11:21

If fake Dalis are offered regularly and this can be demonstrated, the auctioneer (read catawiki) is complicit in fraud.

In previous court cases, the efforts of the auction house are weighed. If an auction house can demonstrate that experts have had the offer examined, the culpability is not present. Case 2012 Amsterdam Court of Appeal - Christies. it is therefore about the effort that the auction site has made.

Assessing by means of a photo does not seem to be covered by this.

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  • 13 messages
  • December 31, 2015 09:11
December 31, 2015 09:11

For those who would be interested in the following lot:

Salvador Dalí - El ojo del tiempo surrealista

best HERE take a look ....

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December 31, 2015 09:30

Did you report it to the auction master?

Did you get a response this time?

Thank you for reporting, I also think this is real cannot.

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  • 13 messages
  • December 31, 2015 11:32
December 31, 2015 11:32

@JozefK: I don't report anymore, I usually only get a response when the auction has ended with the message that they have received so many emails that they did not have time to answer me.

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