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March 17, 2024 08:02
The terms Maakwerk and Cardboard Philately are regularly mentioned on the stamp forum.
Are these terms well-established among collectors and, above all, is the question whether they are also used and known internationally?
What are adequate translations of Maakwerk and Kartonphilatelie?
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  • March 17, 2024 09:10
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March 17, 2024 09:10
Collectioneur I once wanted to look up the nuance between a more commonly used German term and 'Fälschung'. The nuance was that the word meant ' work '. Examples are the many local overprints on Hitler stamps. There are legitimate overprints. It looks real. However, it is not a forgery, because the overprint in question is a fabrication. On a large English-speaking forum we occasionally use 'fabrication.'
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March 17, 2024 09:41
They have become naturalized in the Netherlands, Flanders and especially Germany.

Example from a shop of a German Stamp Shop



NL:
https://www.filavaria.nl/karton.htm
DU:
https://www.philaseiten.de/cgi-bin/index.pl?ST=267&full=1
http://www.briefmarken-handbuch.de/uebersicht.php?textlink=kartonphilatelie

Those who do not collect it are scornful about it, because it has nothing to do with the postal part of philately. Just as cardboard philatelists sometimes sneer at variety collectors (or are they variety collectors?) who turn it into a freak show.
It's there, it exists, and there are (many) collectors of those things.
You are not allowed to exhibit it at 'official' philately competitions... who cares about that?

I found the best definition of Maakwerk on filahome.nl :
Craftsmanship in philately
An important characteristic of philatelic works is that they are usually published for profit. Strictly speaking, any letter or card with a stamp that was not created to convey a message to a friend or business partner is philatelic work. You can ask whether 'manufacturing' is bad.
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  • March 17, 2024 11:05
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March 17, 2024 11:05
Raoul62 Strictly speaking That have nothing to do with philately but as you tell there are a lot of collectors that want and love them. Even philatelic clubs create some just for profit.

Everybody is free to collect what it want but for a catalog like LD is it relevant ?

Collectioneur  I ask the question as the rule is that postal history cannot be in the LD catalog is it is not standard manufactured but this is the same problem with them too it is craft and even many are done by clubs or collectors themselves (it is legal as never post to travel so anybody can create the stamps too ).

By the way in more classical  postal history we find many letters from like years 1920 to 1934 even some earlier that were creates by collectors with stamps series that have nothing to do with the rates of these postal period but that travelled  after all you can pay more that the rates to post a letter not bellow the post office rate.
These letters are really beautiful , I had one  sent from Paris to Berlin by a German collector in 1924  in with all the 1924 French series for the Olympic games in 1924 in Paris. I sold it in January for a great amount  of money in a postal history auction , over 8 collectors want it , and as you write you can’t exhibit it in stamps exhibition. But who care to participate to stamp exhibition really nowadays ? 
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March 17, 2024 12:43
It's funny that the answer to a question goes in a different direction than what you thought.
In my view, the fact that Filahome et al. relate Maatwerk to commercial interests is incorrect. Everything that was/is sold has a commercial interest. Selling normal stamps is also a commercial activity and is intended to make a profit.
Then I think it would be better to have a definition along the lines of: Manufacturing concerns items that are related to stamps, but are not intended for postal services.

My question is actually simpler: If we are going to introduce some kind of Customization, are there internationally known concepts for this? Raoul62 indicates that the term Customization actually only occurs in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, so this is of no further use.
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March 17, 2024 13:27
I didn't say that. It is true that cardboard philately is established in Belgium (part of Flanders), the Netherlands and Germany.
There are many types of cardboard philately. FDC's, LDC's, First Day Sheets, Maximum Cards, First Flight cards and covers, ...
One country places more emphasis on a certain type (France, for example, on Maximaphilia), the other on yet another type (USA on FDCs).
The Netherlands, for example, places explicit emphasis on everything, because for years Dutch collectors were prepared to spend a lot of money on it.
I have no idea what it's called in Chinese or Arabic.
The commercial aspect refers to the purpose, which no longer had anything to do with the original purpose.
The original purpose was to pay for sending a message. The main case. That was the economic contribution of stamps, blocks, sheets, booklets, postal stationery, ...
The commercial purpose of making work (cardboard philately) was merely to extract money from the collector's purse. The economic contribution was merely making a profit.
Everything has commercial importance. Whether it is the main issue or a side issue.
The Stamps section basically contains things made by official (recognized) postal services. You pay and then receive something to prove that you paid for the shipping service.
The things made with it, the sideshow, are fun as a collector's item. They no longer have anything to do with the sending service.
It is not custom work, but custom work. A completely new product in which the parts have lost their original function. The new goal is purely collecting.
I have never received a shipment that was stamped with FDCs, EDB or MKs (Maxium cards). These are things that you put in an album to have (collect), not to use further. The only purpose. Such as Panin stickers or Smurf stickers.
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March 17, 2024 13:28
My question is actually simpler: If we are going to introduce some kind of Customization, are there internationally known concepts for this?

Philatelic work or cardboard philately Collectioneur includes, for example, the types: Ecubrief First Day Newspaper First Day Card FDC Occasional Card Occasional Envelope Children's Thank You Card Maximum Card Folder and Telebrief . Making work is a collective name, not a specific type.
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March 17, 2024 13:44
Charles1971
That is completely in line with the general view of Maakwerk.
This is the collective name for the species mentioned, which we use Maakwerk for in NL.
What is the collective name for those species in English, French and German, if it exists at all?
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March 17, 2024 14:05
Kartonphilatelie oder Philatetische Erzeugnisse (German).
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March 17, 2024 14:07
My personal view is that a stamp section consists of the main point and the secondary point. If you cannot separate the main issue from the side issue... where does the 'tolerance policy' start?

Where do you place stamps (blocks) that look like stamps (stamp blocks) but are not?
These are other pillars: Cinderellas (again: the 'real' Cinderellas, which are valuable collectibles), Jul stamps, illegal issues, perfins, tax stamps, closing stamps, ... These are also things that you always have to treat as the 'main issue'. With the associated side issue (in each of those pillars there is a main issue and a side issue / production work). For some there is a specific solution on LD. But not for everything.
Cinderellas in a stamp section? Ask any American who frantically collects 'Cinderellas' and/or 'Poster stamps'. You'll know quickly what he thinks of LD.
That Jul stamps are often collected by people who also collect stamps? Agree. Should they therefore be included in the stamp section? I also collect cigar bands. And I can't find them in the stamp section now... wouldn't it be easier for me if they moved there?

The Stamps section contains the stamps (...), and the work done with those things. With a policy of tolerance for illegal issues (which also have their own making).
Together, so that the collector does not have to spend too much time trying to determine whether the thing he or she has in mind is a real or an illegal stamp. Together: the same country name, but with the addition (at the end of the name) of the clear term 'illegal'.
Also a management that is quick to respond to illegal things, in order to temper commercial abuse.
The commercial abuse that is one of the causes of the decline of philately as a hobby. If you get ripped off enough by manufactured work and illegal products, then it stops for a collector. Then it would be better to start arranging flowers as a way to spend your time. Sometimes not cheaper, but more useful. A beautiful flower arrangement offers added value to an interior. An illegally issued stamp does not.
The Illegal issues are specifically designed to allow for confusion. So that unsuspecting collectors do not realize that they are being scammed. That is why it must be tolerated in the stamp section, close to the real stamps (but not mixed, because then no cat will understand anything).

We stray from the original question, but it is background to underline the importance of terms such as Kartonphilately (craft work).
Whether such a term is known in Japan, Burundi or Indonesia?
Does that matter? They also think differently about the definition of a Block and a Sheet. But LD itself determines which terminology it uses and what that terminology means (recorded in the manual). Dates.
In other catalogs (digital or paper) they also mention the nominal value (whether or not added) for blocks/sheets with multiple stamps. We don't do that at LD. That's the deal.
With maximum cards, we also do not follow the general international rules on LD (which are applied in many countries, but not everywhere). Or half of the MKs in the Netherlands may be moved to the 'Other' type. LD is man enough to determine which flag covers which charge.
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March 17, 2024 14:11
Craftsmanship as a term is dangerous.
Certain stamps were/are sometimes provided with an additional stamp (overprint). Sometimes legal (different value, different country name), sometimes illegal (Hitler stamps after WWII were overprinted in many places). With an additional print you can turn an ordinary (worthless) stamp into a seemingly expensive collector's item... that is also work.
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March 17, 2024 14:13
This is a risky one. Making in the Netherlands seems to be the counterpart of cardboard philately. Made in Germany are stamps or postal items that pretend to be real, but are fabrications and could never have existed. They are not counterfeits because a real counterpart does not exist, but they do appear to be real.
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  • March 17, 2024 15:42
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March 17, 2024 15:42
Collectioneur French catalog of stamp that is the reference for french stamps choose over a decade ago not to reference what you call Maakwerk. It is not the aim of philately and collecting stamps as sais Raoul62 a stamp is issue to pay for a service (sending a letter) or a tax (postage and revenue stamps are the same in Great Britain.

Many collectors stop to collect stamps because they are fed up of  industrial Maakwerk that are not at all craft. The stamp collection is in crisis partly because of so called Maakwerk…..

To add about Maxicard, it is now a specific topical creative hobby as some collector create themselves their maxicard finding a postcard Maching with a stamps and asking at event to a post employee to cancel it.  If you reference that in LD it will be millions of possibilities to handle with no philatelic value.
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March 17, 2024 16:27
Interesting approach from Frenchstamps on what should or should not be stamps. From the looks of it, this should actually be limited to stamp items that actually served as a stamp. So as a species only the Seal and any varieties.

Apart from this off-topic excursion, I note that apparently the concept Maakwerk is only somewhat known in Dutch and German.
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  • March 17, 2024 18:49
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March 17, 2024 18:49
From the looks of it, this should actually be limited to stamp items that actually served as a stamp. So as a species only the Seal and any varieties.

Not only is that not exactly what he wrote:


a stamp is issue to pay for a service (sending a letter) or a tax (postage and revenue stamps are the same in Great Britain.

This definition will also give rise to subjective interpretation.

Apart from that
1. 'postage and revenue stamps' were and not 'are;'
2. not all tax stamps could be used as postage stamps;

* payment of tax ZERO COMMA ZERO has to do with serving as a postage stamp: it has been uniformity in form, not in use, and
* strictly speaking, postage stamps and air duty stamps have never served 'to pay for a service (sending a letter).'

The first were used to compensate for not paying for the said service and often even to levy import duties, the second could not be used to frank a letter but only to pay air duty in addition to the franking.

English service stamps were also not used for postage. They were an accounting tool.

By the way, a purely philatelic postage is still a postage. And how do you determine whether a piece of mail has significant over-postage or is simply paper with stamps that went through the mail in an envelope with a stamp (first-day envelopes can be both)?
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  • March 17, 2024 20:43
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March 17, 2024 20:43
Collectioneur Esquerdo my définition of what is a stamps indeed vary more and more with countries usage and indeed Maakwerk is limited to very few countries it seems not at all universal and seems nearly impossible to translate it in other languages to state what it is in Dutch.

From a mathematical logic it is wise to avoid unlimited combinations in numbers of possibilities in a catalog , this is why I wrote the cases of custom made Maxicard that French collectors do themselves.

We need to stay logical about what can be translated and quite universal and not and what can be handle in limited numbers in a catalog without being a big mess. Each catalog make their choice but a worldwide catalog like LD  be so wide that specialised  catalogs covering only one country.

Rather that giving my personal opinion, that is quite the same than Raoul62 , now I prefer to ask if it is really manageable to include so much categories of items ? 


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March 17, 2024 21:57
Frenchstamps I wonder how these types of items fit into Last Dodo's 'stock-image' model.
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